Interview Part 3: Kaoru Watanabe talks Kodo, Odaiko, Chichibu Yataibayashi, and Miyake Jima Kamitsuki Kiyari Daiko

This is the third interview in my series with Kaoru. I highly recommend checking out the other two if you haven’t yet. It’s always a great pleasure to sit down with Kaoru and ask about his thoughts, experiences, and many interesting anecdotes. Beyond simply enjoying the conversation, I think we are providing important insights for anyone wanting to expand their knowledge and perspective.

This interview happened exactly one week after I had attended the Kodo concert titled Warabe. The timing was coincidental but I took the opportunity to ask Kaoru about his time with Kodo, especially relating to the philosophy and culture around learning and performing traditional arts such as the ohayashi (music) from Chichibu and the Kamitsuki district of Miyake Jima. This conversation includes a lot of history and information that are invaluable in understanding Kodo as well as these traditional art forms. As we referenced near the end, we had also planned to talk about fue but ran out of time because of the depth and breadth of this discussion. We will get together for that topic in the near future. I hope you share my feeling of gratitude to Kaoru for taking the time to thoughtfully engage in these fascinating conversations. The supplemental material he provided (below) is a great resource for delving deeper into the topics covered in this interview. Feel free to send me comments, questions, or requests anytime.

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Supplemental material from Kaoru:

Miyamoto Tsuneichi is a scholar who greatly influenced Den Tagayasu and recommended he set up the artisan village in Sado.
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Forgotten_Japanese.html?id=q2EbG_NM1xwC&source=kp_author_description

The following are all dances I have learned from local practitioners. The first one is the one we're not allowed to perform, while the others we are. With Shishiodori, I not only did tours performing it, but I made the costume by hand! The Kakinoura Ondeko is the first of these dances I learned. The town between Kakinoura and Iwakubi that I couldn't recall is Odawara. A note that perhaps many people don't realize is that at Kodo we learn as much dancing as drumming. This is only a partial list of the dances (and fue/taiko/uta that goes with it) that I learned during my short time there.

Kurokawa Sansa, Morioka Prefecture
https://youtu.be/kw4JXAXMVCE?si=xmHflYyj34ptSvkm

Onikenbai, Iwate Prefecture
https://youtu.be/2FGN80g5ZU8?si=GJWD0We2m51Co-Ow

Shishiodori, Iwate Prefecture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXZTOoUiFUc

Kakinoura Ondeko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyI0yX1jtao

Iwakubi Ondeko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKpp2kKKTmE

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Website
http://www.watanabekaoru.com

Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBL_1I2mRPcVK2gvyRAeNA

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/kaorufue/

Kaoru Watanabe Taiko Center
http://www.taikonyc.com

Acclaimed composer and instrumentalist Kaoru Watanabe's work is grounded in traditional Japanese music while imbued with contemporary jazz, improvisation, and experimental music elements. His signature skill of infusing Japanese culture with disparate styles on the shinobue flutes and taiko and other Japanese percussion has made him a much-in-demand collaborator working with such iconic artists as André 3000, Wes Anderson, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Laurie Anderson, Jason Moran, Yo-Yo Ma, Japanese National Living Treasure Bando Tamasaburo and Rhiannon Giddens. In 2024, Watanabe launched Bloodlines Interwoven, a festival celebrating music and diaspora, presented by Baryshnikov Arts and funded by the Mellon Foundation. Featuring a broad range of groundbreaking musicians, from Mino Cinelu, Nasheet Waits, Adam O'Farrill, Alicia Hall Moran, Layale Chaker, Martha Redbone, Du Yun, and many more, the festival was a paradigm-shifting musical exploration of cultural roots, identity, history.

Born to Japanese parents who were long-time St Louis Symphony Orchestra members, Watanabe began training at a young age, eventually graduating from the Manhattan School of Music, where he studied Black American jazz music. He then moved to Japan and became the first American to perform with and lead the internationally acclaimed taiko performing arts group Kodo. Acting as Artistic Director of Kodo's Earth Celebration festival, inviting such artists as Zakir Hussain, Giovanni Hidalgo, and other masters of music from across the globe, he first saw how profound cross-cultural collaboration could be: people who don’t share a common language can find ways to unite in musical conversation when done with a sense of mutual respect, open-mindedness, an open heart, and a desire to connect. In 2008, after ten transformative years in Japan, which left him deeply connected to his heritage and the land from which his parents came, he left Kodo. He returned to New York to weave together all the musical threads of his experiences.

Watanabe’s compositions draw lines between distant points—Japan and America, ancient history and modern politics, and Eastern and Western music. Looking for the sympathetic vibrations that emerge, he weaves together Buddhist chants reimagined as antipolice brutality protests, WWII-era ZERO kamikaze fighter planes, the Sengoku Civil War era, and the culture wars of today’s America. In his work, Watanabe introduces sounds from a distant past to the 21st century, expressing the many layers of his identity and culture. Watanabe has performed his compositions with such artists as Kodo, Yo-Yo Ma and the Silkroad Ensemble, and The Sydney Symphony Orchestra, with whom he debuted two pieces for shinobue, voice, taiko and orchestra at the Sydney Symphony Hall.

He acted as an advisor and was a featured musician on Wes Anderson’s Isle of Dogs, and he is featured on the Silkroad Ensemble’s Grammy Award-winning album Sing Me Home. He also created music for Martin Scorcese’s Silence and Netflix’s Ultraman: Rising, and perhaps his greatest accomplishment was providing the jazz flute stylings of the Pied Piper in Shrek 4ever After.

As an educator, Watanabe has taught courses at Princeton, Wesleyan, and Boston Conservatory and was an artist-in-residence at Loyola University. He has taught workshops across North and South America, Europe, and East and Southwest Asia.

Watanabe’s drums are provided by Miyamoto Unosuke Shoten, a mikoshi shrine and traditional instrument maker founded in 1861. His flutes are provided by Ranjo, a master craftsman based in Chiba Prefecture who makes instruments for many of the top musicians in Japan. One of the highest honors of Watanabe’s life is when Ranjo declared, “Watanabe possesses the greatest sound on the shinobue in the world.”

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Interview Part 2: Kaoru Watanabe talks music, food, taiko, and cultural appropriation

This interview is a follow-up conversation I had with Kaoru after we had previously talked about studying and etiquette in Japan. If you haven’t checked it out, I would recommend listening to it because provides some foundation for the topics covered in this second interview.

https://www.eienhunterishikawa.com/blog/interview-kaoru-watanabe-talks-japanese-etiquette-studying-teaching-and-performing

We had recorded this part 2 interview a couple of years ago and I recently edited the audio to make it available here. Listening to our conversation, I was struck once again by Kaoru’s perceptive insights about food, taiko, and how to think discerningly about cultural appropriation. He is a serious student of music and culture, and I always recognize his strong passion and integrity whenever we have a chance to hang out. Sometimes I think Kaoru and I are more than like-minded. There are times where he says something and it’s word-for-word the same way I think of it. Did he get that from me? Or did I forget I got that from him? Or just coincidence stemming from our personal tastes and past experiences? This conversation features a lot of those moments.

I’m not sure if the ideas in this interview might be perceived by some people as contentious. To me it was a genuine and honest conversation about how Kaoru and I think about these topics. I’m always grateful for his willingness to make time and discuss whatever I’m interested in asking him. I hope you find this interview as interesting as I did.

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Website
http://www.watanabekaoru.com

Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBL_1I2mRPcVK2gvyRAeNA

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/kaorufue/

Kaoru Watanabe Taiko Center
http://www.taikonyc.com

Kaoru Watanabe, a New York-based composer and musician specializing in Japanese flutes and percussion, works with such groundbreaking artists as Laurie Anderson, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Yo-Yo Ma, Wes Anderson, Bando Tamasaburo, Simone Leigh, and Jason Moran. Watanabe is known for the artful and innovative ways he merges traditional Japanese music and theater elements with the contemporary Western world.

Originally from St. Louis, MO, where his parents played in the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra, Watanabe played classical music as a child before going to the Manhattan School of Music to study jazz flute and saxophone. He then spent a decade in Japan, re-discovering and diving deep into his cultural roots as a member of the iconic taiko drumming ensemble Kodo. Watanabe studied a wide variety of traditional Japanese folk dances, songs, drumming, Noh, Kyogen, tea ceremony, woodworking, and rice farming to deepen his understanding of Japanese culture and the function and place of the performing arts within it.

As a solo artist, Watanabe seeks to collaborate with artists who embrace both tradition and innovation, such as Eva Yerbabuena, Imani Uzuri, Tamangoh, Adam Rudolph, Alicia Hall Moran, Rhiannon Giddens, Jen Shyu, Susie Ibara, Hassan Hakmoun, Zakir Hussein, Gamin, Vernon Reid, Wu Man, Tseyen Tserendorj, and many others.

As a composer, Watanabe writes for various, often unconventional instrumentations and explores a wide variety of compositional techniques. He has written orchestral works for the Sydney Symphony, premiering them at the Sydney Opera House. Watanabe composed music for the Academy Award-nominated Isle of Dogs soundtrack and three separate commissions for Yo-Yo Ma's Silkroad ensemble. Watanabe's compositions often explore social justice, politics, history, and heritage. He has written a piece called Iki, meaning "breath," a mantra-like performance-art piece for Eric Garner. Watanabe has written for prepared koto about the Japanese fighter planes used in WWII, a symbol of both the beauty and genius of Japanese culture and the evil and destruction it perpetrated. During the pandemic, Watanabe developed a body of work that uses electronics to sample and playback his flutes, drums, and voice live, allowing him to create ensemble works solo that he titled INCENSE.

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Interview: Kaoru Watanabe talks Japanese etiquette, studying, teaching, and performing

photo by Max Whittaker

I recently had the pleasure of talking with Kaoru Watanabe, a friend and wonderful musician based in New York. We first met while I was living in Honolulu and playing with the Kenny Endo Taiko Ensemble. Kaoru and I have performed together in a variety of configurations over the years and I always have a fantastic time. I especially appreciate his musical openness and keen ear which constantly kindle spontaneity and real interaction on stage as we improvise. Kaoru, like myself, is all about the music, and I think this philosophical bond can be heard in our conversation.

For this interview, I asked Kaoru about etiquette in Japanese culture and more specifically within traditional arts. My interest in this topic has grown as I learn more about 礼儀作法 (reigi sahou, or etiquette system) through my Edo Bayashi studies with Kyosuke Suzuki sensei. At the beginning of the interview, I mention Suzuki sensei’s video interviews I produced for the Online Edo Bayashi Gathering in February 2021. Here is the link where you can find three videos dedicated to this topic:

https://vimeo.com/showcase/7974529

As I had anticipated, Kaoru shared valuable insights he gained through a wealth of experiences in the US and Japan. I can relate to his fluency in both cultures so it felt easy and natural to conduct the interview. The included music are excerpts from three of Kaoru’s pieces: Merge, Shinobu, and Bloodlines. I am grateful to Kaoru for his time and look forward to the next time we can record another interview on a different topic.

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Website
http://www.watanabekaoru.com

Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBL_1I2mRPcVK2gvyRAeNA

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/kaorufue/

Kaoru Watanabe Taiko Center
http://www.taikonyc.com

Kaoru Watanabe, a New York-based composer and musician specializing in Japanese flutes and percussion, works with such groundbreaking artists as Laurie Anderson, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Yo-Yo Ma, Wes Anderson, Bando Tamasaburo, Simone Leigh, and Jason Moran. Watanabe is known for the artful and innovative ways he merges traditional Japanese music and theater elements with the contemporary Western world.

Originally from St. Louis, MO, where his parents played in the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra, Watanabe played classical music as a child before going to the Manhattan School of Music to study jazz flute and saxophone. He then spent a decade in Japan, re-discovering and diving deep into his cultural roots as a member of the iconic taiko drumming ensemble Kodo. Watanabe studied a wide variety of traditional Japanese folk dances, songs, drumming, Noh, Kyogen, tea ceremony, woodworking, and rice farming to deepen his understanding of Japanese culture and the function and place of the performing arts within it.

As a solo artist, Watanabe seeks to collaborate with artists who embrace both tradition and innovation, such as Eva Yerbabuena, Imani Uzuri, Tamangoh, Adam Rudolph, Alicia Hall Moran, Rhiannon Giddens, Jen Shyu, Susie Ibara, Hassan Hakmoun, Zakir Hussein, Gamin, Vernon Reid, Wu Man, Tseyen Tserendorj, and many others.

As a composer, Watanabe writes for various, often unconventional instrumentations and explores a wide variety of compositional techniques. He has written orchestral works for the Sydney Symphony, premiering them at the Sydney Opera House. Watanabe composed music for the Academy Award-nominated Isle of Dogs soundtrack and three separate commissions for Yo-Yo Ma's Silkroad ensemble. Watanabe's compositions often explore social justice, politics, history, and heritage. He has written a piece called Iki, meaning "breath," a mantra-like performance-art piece for Eric Garner. Watanabe has written for prepared koto about the Japanese fighter planes used in WWII, a symbol of both the beauty and genius of Japanese culture and the evil and destruction it perpetrated. During the pandemic, Watanabe developed a body of work that uses electronics to sample and playback his flutes, drums, and voice live, allowing him to create ensemble works solo that he titled INCENSE.

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Interview: Yuta Kato talks Suzuki sensei, Saburo sensei, Hachijo, and Yodan Uchi

I had a fun time talking with Yuta Kato about his experiences in Japan. There were a lot of different topics we could have covered in this interview but I primarily wanted to hear about Yuta’s studies with the two very important teachers we have in common: Kyosuke Suzuki sensei and Saburo Mochizuki sensei. This discussion brought up many ideas we find important such as artistic integrity, teaching skills, the value of studying in Japan, and the different points of view on Sukeroku Daiko’s iconic piece Yodan Uchi. I also asked Yuta to share his story about becoming a passionate advocate for Hachijo Island, its taiko style, and the culture of the people there. This topic prompted us to converse about concepts like the importance of ryuha and iemoto (school and its leader) in traditional arts, striving for honesty in our soloing, efforts to connect people by removing barriers, and the valuable lessons that kumidaiko players can acquire from traditional Japanese music.

The impetus for this interview came in part from my recent discussion with Yuta and Masa Miyano about the upcoming event DONference at Asano Taiko US. In addition to covering the details and logistics, I felt like we touched upon some important concepts which could be covered in greater depth. If you haven’t checked that out, I would recommend it as a good supplement to this interview. I would like to thank Yuta for taking valuable time out of his schedule to talk with me. I think we were able to go beyond the surface and talk genuinely about some very meaningful things in music and life.

Yuta and Masa interview
https://www.eienhunterishikawa.com/blog/interview-yuta-and-masa-talk-about-donference

DONference website
https://www.solatidon.com

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Yuta Kato was born and raised in California to a Japanese-only speaking family. Introduced to taiko by Kagami-Kai, a local rice-pounding group, he decided to further his studies with San Francisco Taiko Dojo at the age of 10. Since then he has been a part of UCLA Kyodo Taiko, Nihon Taiko Dojo, Getsuyoukai, and professional groups: TAIKOPROJECT, ON Ensemble, and Portland Taiko. From Fall 2007 until Winter 2011, he resided in Japan to study under masters of various traditional Japanese music. Upon returning to the US in 2011, he served successfully as Coordinator for the 2011 North American Taiko Conference, one of the largest gatherings of taiko players from around the globe.

Kato is also a sought after taiko instructor and has been invited to teach throughout the world. He currently resides in California serving as the principal and instructor for LATI (Los Angeles Taiko Institute) housed at Asano Taiko US, which opened in 2013. He performs as a member of UnitOne (Torrance, CA).

Los Angeles Taiko Institute
https://taiko.la

Asano Taiko US
http://asano.us

How to Make Onigirazu - A Step by Step Pictorial

Willamette Valley rose with onigirazu (nori, brown rice, canned sardines, grilled zucchini and peppers, lettuce, shiso, and shoyu-balsamic vinaigrette). There are no rules.

Onigirazu is a fairly new food preparation which has been getting more popular in Japan over the last few years. Apparently, the idea first appeared in a comic book series 30 years ago, but it seems to be a newer trend among home cooks. I learned about it recently through an online article on the website of the Japanese supermarket Uwajimaya. The Japanese word onigirazu (おにぎらず) means ‘to not grip, or unsqueezed,’ referring to its main difference from the traditional rice ball called onigiri (おにぎり). Onigiri is a popular snack food where a flavorful ingredient (such as umeboshi, salted salmon, spicy cod roe, shiso, pickles, etc.) is placed into the center of the rice ball before squeezing into a triangle with wetted and salted hands. Wrapping nori around the onigiri is optional. Another similar preparation is makizushi (巻き寿司), which is rolled sushi made with seasoned sushi rice. To me, makizushi requires the most technical skill to build, along with the added step of having to make seasoned rice.

I was excited to discover the onigirazu concept because the format encourages improvisation. You can think of it as a sandwich but with the satisfying flavor and texture of rice. Because the nori contains everything like a burrito, the onigirazu can be stuffed with ingredients that might fall out of a sandwich, and the higher filling-to-rice ratio differentiates it from onigiri and makizushi. As I learn to make better onigirazu, it’s clear that there are still techniques waiting to be discovered for improving upon this basic method. In terms of ingredients, anything goes. Here, I had some leftover grilled vegetables and sausage to which I added some fresh cucumber, tomato, and herbs from the garden. It’s good to think about how sandwiches are made - adding condiments to the bread is typical - in order to make sure the rice is seasoned properly. Whereas bread has salt in it, rice does not and therefore needs seasoning. The onigiri has its exterior salted, but it makes more sense to season the inside of the onigirazu. Finally, every online recipe instructs us to wrap it tightly in plastic wrap for a couple of minutes so that the nori can adhere better. This works, but I’m skeptical that it is the single best method. More experimentation is needed to find alternative ways.

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Making Onigirazu

The filling is prepped while the rice is cooking. Grilled vegetables (corn, sweet onion, zucchini, yellow pepper) and sausage, cucumber, and cherry tomato. I find it easier to eat if the ingredients are cut into smaller pieces.

One sheet of nori is placed on a piece of plastic wrap. The nori’s shiny side is facing down.

Hot rice is placed in a square shape. It helps to press down so that the shape is maintained for later steps.

It’s important to season the rice with salt (or furikake) and…

…sauce made with homemade mayonnaise, homemade miso, and shichimi. Anything can be used, and a good source of inspiration might be to ask yourself, “what do I like on sandwiches, burgers, hotdogs, tacos, onigiri, makizushi, or anything else resembling such foods?”

Begin stacking with the flatter filling items. I like to think about contrasting sweet, salty, rich, and acid. Grilled corn (sweet) and tomatoes (sweet, acid).

The richer ingredients of sausage and zucchini are added.

Finally, freshness is provided by the shredded shiso and other herbs and greens.,

Carefully mound more hot rice on top.

Bring in the opposing corners of nori and press lightly, holding for a moment for the nori to adhere to the rice.

Repeat with the other two opposing corners of nori. It takes some practice to fold it neatly like a wrapped present.

Tightly envelop with the plastic wrap, and then press down firmly. Let this sit for about one minute. This is the step that could use some rethinking.

Unwrap and use a sharp knife to cut into triangles because science has proven that triangles actually taste better than rectangles. Here, I poured my own Centennial IPA (using homegrown hops from 2017) in my Heater Allen glass. Located in McMinnville, Oregon, Heater Allen makes some of the very best lagers in the country.